00;00;00;06 - 00;00;02;20 Alex Technically speaking. 00;00;02;22 - 00;00;05;18 Chelsie Welcome to our technically untechnical technology talk. 00;00;05;20 - 00;00;08;09 Alex A NIWC Atlantic production. 00;00;08;11 - 00;00;17;23 Chelsie Hello I'm Chelsie, the NIWC Atlantic audiovisual specialist, social media manager. And you know what? I can't remember the last time I was involved in a science experiment. 00;00;17;24 - 00;00;26;01 Alex And I'm Alex, part of the media engagement team, and I haven't done a science experiment in a while either, but I do enjoy watching them on social media. 00;00;26;03 - 00;00;28;02 Chelsie Were you good at science in school? Alex? 00;00;28;02 - 00;00;35;23 Alex It wasn't one of my favorite subjects, but I did kind of want to go into medicine. But as you see, I'm over here in communications. 00;00;35;26 - 00;00;45;22 Chelsie Same. I'm also in communications. So science wasn't my forte either, especially when I got to like physics and stuff. I just got way too hard, way over my head. I was like, nope, I can't do this. 00;00;45;25 - 00;00;47;14 Alex Yeah, it was too complicated for me. 00;00;47;15 - 00;01;11;07 Chelsie But luckily here at NIWC Atlantic, we've got lots of scientists and engineers that are really good at creating scientific capabilities for our warfighters. And the reason that I am bringing up all of the science experiments stuff is because every year we make sure that we experiment and test those information warfare solutions that our scientists and engineers are creating before they are used in real life scenarios. 00;01;11;08 - 00;01;39;23 Alex Coming up, we've got a roundtable styles chat with Matt Lane and Jonathan James or JJ about this year's System of Systems Naval Integration Experiment, also known as SOSNIE. Matt was involved with leading the event and JJ was one of the participants testing a capability he is currently working on. Then we shared our chat with Senior Chief Andre Mumford, who explains how his work with software systems help Navy personnel so you know what time it is. 00;01;39;23 - 00;01;43;24 Alex Let's get comfy, turn up that volume and let's get started. 00;01;43;27 - 00;02;11;05 Chelsie The Systems of Systems Naval Integration Experiment is a very official way of saying NIWC Atlantic once again conducted a large scale science experiment that included lots of technology multiple aircraft including helicopters, fighter jets, flying balloons, and so much more all to allow our scientists and engineers to experiment and test their systems, aka their projects for the military, which is really cool. 00;02;11;12 - 00;02;33;24 Alex And to explain how all of that turned out, and to give us a wrap up of the large event, we spoke with Matt, the Expeditionary Warfare Department Program Management lead, and JJ, the technical lead for the MAGTAF Command and Control System and Application iPPt. Let's take a listen. Can you tell us a little bit more about what is involved with the event? 00;02;33;29 - 00;03;00;02 Matt Sure. SOSNIE is again the system a systems naval integration experiment and it is an experiment. So it's intended to bring together, scientists, technicians, organization and really naval, meaning Navy and U.S. Marine Corps systems and engineers out to a mobile environment, within a tent structure to to give them a more realistic idea of what the systems will do. 00;03;00;04 - 00;03;22;14 Matt It informs and educates them on how they can put put in engineering change proposals, new science and technology funding programs. as they move forward. The other thing about SAS is the systems that are involved or very mature systems. So there's systems that are getting very close to deployment, within the next 6 to 12 months. 00;03;22;14 - 00;03;30;06 Matt So it's really a last ditch effort, to truly enhance the ability of this system. So when we deliver to the warfighter, it's a system they can use immediately. 00;03;30;06 - 00;03;45;13 Chelsie So there's a lot going on in SAS. And I was really excited I got to come out there. it was at the end of March that it was held in 2024. And what you're seeing is these all these tents, all this technology out in this large field that INIWC Atlantic has it's called the SAUSR range. 00;03;45;15 - 00;04;07;05 Chelsie And it's impressive because we're seeing drones. We're seeing huge balloons that have technology on them that they're testing. We're seeing aircraft flying over helicopters flying in. A lot of people at computers inside these tents, doing all of this technology in the field. And what I was looking at, I just wanted to paint the picture for our listeners. 00;04;07;05 - 00;04;32;05 Chelsie Right. What they were seeing was a lot of very smart engineers and scientists testing a lot of capabilities in environments alongside active duty military. And can you kind of go on a little bit more? I know you kind of told us the reason why they're testing this, but really emphasize like why it was important for that setting and, how many capabilities that were tested. 00;04;32;05 - 00;05;05;17 Matt So to address the military component of the question, expeditionary department is very focused on end user feedback. But the practical reason is we're bringing these folks in that are currently using existing systems in the field now. So as we push the envelope to determine the next steps with these systems, having the actual operators to be there alongside the engineers and technicians is absolutely critical to know how to do the last, focus, and changes needed for the systems to, to get delivered out in the field. 00;05;05;18 - 00;05;23;21 JJ I would also add that, you know, as engineers, we don't always get to go to the in life of a marine or even a naval officer. So to be able to have to walk into those tents and understand this is what their day in a life is when they're actually actively deployed, they walk in that tent, they have to set the equipment up. 00;05;23;23 - 00;05;40;07 JJ The equipment doesn't work this way. The comms or the communications and the network issues that me or I like the things that we don't actually see. We write the manual, we build the software, but we don't know what their day life is. And to hear them say, hey, yep, this is an issue that we have. How do we fix it and address those? 00;05;40;10 - 00;05;45;05 JJ that fast, rapid feedback is very important to give them a capability for the future fight. 00;05;45;13 - 00;05;59;19 Chelsie Perfect. And when you guys were saying systems, you mean generally software like actual physical, technologies, communications equipment, that's what you mean by that, right? In general, what you mean by testing systems. 00;05;59;24 - 00;06;21;19 Matt Right. Well, we actually mean is literally taking all of our IP with the systems they work on in the labs, which includes software, includes hardware, all the networking, some cases, antennas, power supplies, everything. We transfer everything out there and then we put them all side by side. So back in the labs, for instance, all these systems are separate. 00;06;21;19 - 00;06;47;25 Matt They might be different floors. It could be months, months, months without even seeing each other fully realizing what another person has. So now the tensor or organized one ring was command and control. The other wing was intelligence systems. The third small ring was communication, and in the center was the operations center. So to physically set everything up and they can turn around and look at another system and even see what's on the display that can generate new ideas. 00;06;47;25 - 00;06;57;22 Matt And then you reach the two magic words of what if, right? What if I did this? What if this did? And and those are the objectives that come about just being out in the environment. 00;06;57;24 - 00;07;16;11 Alex JJ as a participant, you mentioned a few moments ago that you enjoyed being side by side with those who are the warfighters. How does that make you feel in terms of you helping the next set of, technologies being presented and being able to help defend our nation? 00;07;16;14 - 00;07;36;24 JJ makes me feel pretty well, to put pride in the software you're doing, I always go, I've been out there with trainers and trained Marines in, in, on the expeditionary side and said, hey, this is your software. So for me to be able to touch it, put, put the final polishing touches, listen to their feedback because at the end of the day, it's theirs. 00;07;36;27 - 00;07;46;03 JJ And my thing is everybody has family members that are involved in the military. So the goal is to have them have something that takes care of them to go out there and make sure everybody comes home. 00;07;46;03 - 00;08;04;26 Matt Yeah. And the other thing it does, it's nice, is several of our folks are retired or ex-Marine service members as well. And so it's wonderful to watch that bond of the folks that did it yester year with the ones that are doing it now and, and really reconnecting, a lot of those folks creates a very special bond. 00;08;04;27 - 00;08;19;29 Chelsie It's a great visualizer for them to see that the work they're doing in the lab really is helping that warfighter. So how many technologies were out there being tested this year and how many people were involved? Can you kind of give us some numbers about how large this this event was? 00;08;20;02 - 00;08;41;06 Matt I would say just due. We've got 20 integrated product teams out of expeditionary departments. So that's really the benchmark. Now you push beyond that and fleet C4, I mean control computers get collaboration intelligence system at that department. had several other teams as well. So we are probably looking at 25 to 27 teams from now. We could panic. 00;08;41;08 - 00;09;01;17 Matt Now, additionally, we pressed out to a lot of other organizations. So Army Development Command came in working Office of Undersecretary of Defense Project, for instance. We we engaged very heavily with the National Guard on the South Carolina. So they brought in the the Apaches, for instance. We, ran in a different event with, Naval Service Warfare Center. 00;09;01;17 - 00;09;23;02 Matt Crane, who brought in a system that was, connected with the patrol squadron of P-8 aircraft out of Jacksonville. As an aside, that test didn't go as intended. So we reengaged in two weeks after the main source, the event. we went out last week and had a successful test with them. So we basically read that again. So a lot of systems. 00;09;23;02 - 00;09;51;26 Matt But then the other thing we did, we pushed the envelope this year by reaching out to other organizations and reaching beyond the time window. So several of the events occurred weeks before Sony because the operational units couldn't make this time work. We are currently trying to work with Navy ships to engage in May, so we're trying to extend beyond the time window and beyond the location to drift towards sort of a soft knee experiment mindset really throughout the year. 00;09;51;26 - 00;10;00;20 Matt And we hope to start planning for next year even before this year is over. So, so so that's kind of what the shift for, for society was this year. 00;10;00;20 - 00;10;09;08 Chelsie And, so what were some other differences this year versus previous years? And how many years has this experiment been happening with Mike Atlantic? 00;10;09;08 - 00;10;37;26 Matt In addition to the what I would say is, is trying to break the paradigm of safety being just during a week in March, meaning we used to say things like, it's not just over a piece of dirt, and it's not just in a certain time window. Some preparatory things. We brought in significant network effort early. So this year we went out and did site surveys with teams so they could kind of get familiarized, really solved a lot of networking challenges, before we got into the game. 00;10;37;26 - 00;10;59;06 Matt So in many cases, the teams came out plugged in the first day of saw staying within 30 minutes they were up running objectives were before we were still really trying to figure out how to step that up. Another thing we did this year was we moved the classified systems. So this was actually unclassified and classified event moved the classified systems into a standing structure that actually freed up tent space. 00;10;59;06 - 00;11;16;06 Matt And so now the tent space that was out there was actually we had a little bit more room, some things along those lines with the Army Development Command, we put in place a memorandum of agreement that extends for another two years. So, for instance, their integrated park teams came out with their objectives and a very short order, 1 to 2 days. 00;11;16;06 - 00;11;35;00 Matt They were already done. And so then what started to happen in was the additional objectives that would come about on the spot. And so with the Army Development Command, within about six hours they were finished. So they started going up and down all the other teams figuring out how to federate data across multiple systems. So so that's really what the a little bit more about about what what we brought this year and. 00;11;35;00 - 00;11;35;26 Chelsie How many years since. 00;11;35;28 - 00;11;42;26 Matt But I'm sorry to answer the question about 4 to 5 years is, how long the the event has been pretty standardized. 00;11;42;27 - 00;11;52;12 Chelsie So JJ, what can you tell us about maybe some lessons learned that you took away with your, system and your capability specifically that you're allowed to talk about? 00;11;52;14 - 00;11;54;23 JJ my documentation needs more work. 00;11;54;24 - 00;11;57;00 Chelsie No idea what that means. Elaborate. 00;11;57;03 - 00;12;13;05 JJ So for that, just for set up and procedures, just setting it up, we kind of use it as a mini test event and have since we had uniforms out there, let them run through and set it up. so we got to see that our documentation is not where it needs. It needs to be a little bit more detailed. 00;12;13;07 - 00;12;20;22 JJ and, stop the assumptions of thinking that they should know what to do. keep it more simple as one of my professors would tell me. 00;12;20;24 - 00;12;23;29 Chelsie So it helped you think like an active duty member versus an engineer? 00;12;23;29 - 00;12;25;15 JJ Yes. Keep it simple. Form. 00;12;25;21 - 00;12;26;26 Chelsie What is your capability? 00;12;26;26 - 00;12;42;20 JJ We are a command and control. So we do what they call a C2. So we are keeping awareness of maneuvers, tracks and overlays from that perspective. But we're middle ground to ground C2 maneuvers, friendlies and enemies. So we're keeping that at processing of that data. 00;12;42;23 - 00;12;47;26 Chelsie So your technology tracks what people are doing on the ground in an area basically. 00;12;47;26 - 00;12;48;21 JJ Yes. 00;12;48;24 - 00;13;06;14 Matt Yeah. And to kind of add what he, what he described as a lesson learned is what many teams have to face is that they become so familiar with the systems in the labs and working them, just operating is complete second nature. So a lot of the documentation challenges he was talking about is, okay, the system works. Well. 00;13;06;16 - 00;13;30;11 Matt Now, how do we create the documentation, the procedures, the operating manuals, the SOPs, etc. that when I place this thing into the hand of a marine, will it be extremely intuitive? Will they understand exactly how to operate the system to its extent, etc.? And so that that's a whole nother world, of lessons learned that that need that we need to get right, for the systems to be to help those warfighters. 00;13;30;12 - 00;13;51;18 Chelsie It's so exciting to see how much it's grown. I, I was lucky enough to get to go to one, a few years ago. And then now this year, I was able to attend and see everything happening in real life and feeling that helicopter come down and watching that balloon going up and seeing the military members work alongside our engineers and talk things out and write things down. 00;13;51;21 - 00;14;08;05 Chelsie I have enjoyed very much seeing our technology improved because of this experimentation event. And if you guys could wrap up maybe your experience or how you feel watching this event grow in one sentence, what would that be? 00;14;08;09 - 00;14;37;26 Matt I don't know if I'm going to get one sentence, but I will say really important to understand the difference between an exercise and an experiment. So the exercise drives with a scenario and it does accomplish many objectives. But the experiment allows the engineer to run and exercise scenarios typically will cage a lot of and stifle a lot of creativity and innovation. 00;14;37;29 - 00;14;58;13 Matt they have a different purpose. So so what I would say is it's very important as we grow, that we keep the sanctity of this bubble for these engineer to explore. And that's going to be a hard risk going forward, because as it gets more and more attention, others are going to have different ideas for what this event should be. 00;14;58;18 - 00;15;19;28 Chelsie So to paraphrase a little bit of what you're saying is, by keeping this an experiment, the engineers and scientists can really test their, capabilities without the constraint of an exercise objective. They're able to kind of be more widespread, push it to the limits with more freedoms than an exercise may give them. 00;15;20;05 - 00;15;27;14 Matt Correct. And the experiment can actually create more ideas than had even been thought of before the experiment started. 00;15;27;20 - 00;15;28;29 Chelsie And, JJ, what about you? 00;15;29;02 - 00;15;56;04 JJ I would say the experiment gives engineers a, the ability to have more creativity. in the normal day to day work, we do, as well as it just opens the door for future, capabilities so that that creativity will open up another, another door, which and then now you have cross collaboration between other groups, which can then end up in a program of record software. 00;15;56;06 - 00;16;04;09 Alex Well, thank you both, Matt and JJ, for being with us on the podcast. And thank you for all the hard work that you're helping to do, to help support our military. 00;16;04;11 - 00;16;06;20 JJ Appreciate. Thank you. 00;16;06;22 - 00;16;29;14 Chelsie Alex, I've definitely made the mistake in the past of calling sassy and exercise instead of an experiment. So I'm really glad Matt and JJ made the point of explaining why experiments are so important for scientists and engineers, because it allows that creativity and that freedom to really test their capabilities in many different ways instead of according to one specific scenario, like an exercise. 00;16;29;15 - 00;16;53;03 Alex And I also like the active duty feedback aspect of the experiment, and how our scientists and engineers are working closely with the end user, the military. Which brings us to this episode's military moment. Senior Chief Andre Mumford spoke with us about his work installing software that is not in the experimentation phase, but is fully in use across the Navy. 00;16;53;06 - 00;17;06;12 Senior Chief Mumford So my role within Oracle is that I'm the fleet liaison, manager, which I'm in charge of installing the latest, software updates with them in TCS and, and farm service, software applications for the fleet. 00;17;06;14 - 00;17;11;04 Chelsie What is anti assassin anthem if I got that wrong? I'm so sorry, but what are those? 00;17;11;09 - 00;17;34;22 Senior Chief Mumford No worries. so for ECS, a naval tactical command, software, system. So basically, it supports our latest, maintenance, our supply or supply functionality. So support, supply and maintenance personnel and also administration, for tracking the ships, qualifications. 00;17;34;25 - 00;17;39;21 Alex And how is this important in creating information warfare solutions? 00;17;39;23 - 00;17;58;23 Senior Chief Mumford the software, suite is very important because it allows commanders to instantaneous track all their personnel and to provide data driven solutions to help support their personnel within the chain of command. The commands need that information. warfare capability to be able to complete their mission objectives. 00;17;58;26 - 00;18;10;13 Chelsie So what is like a fictional scenario where your job really comes into play and helps? Can you kind of take us from point A to B, point B kind of explain that process? 00;18;10;15 - 00;18;31;23 Senior Chief Mumford Okay. So for example, like I just came back from a submarine install. And so I was help training, but also showing the ship's company as far as like how can this software help their jobs be easier to help support them? Right. Because our role is to make the process efficiently, but also effective at what they're doing. 00;18;31;23 - 00;18;41;02 Senior Chief Mumford And so I provide, tutorials and also, on time training or, and delivery to support them within those efforts. 00;18;41;05 - 00;18;48;13 Chelsie Great. So your software, your capabilities are saving time and probably saving money for the Navy. Is that fair to say? 00;18;48;16 - 00;18;50;14 Senior Chief Mumford yes. Both. Definitely. 00;18;50;16 - 00;18;52;08 Chelsie How long have you been with the Navy? 00;18;52;10 - 00;18;57;08 Senior Chief Mumford so I've been in the Navy for 15 years. I hit my 16 year mark, in February. 00;18;57;10 - 00;18;58;07 Chelsie You liking it? 00;18;58;09 - 00;18;59;01 Senior Chief Mumford I love it. 00;18;59;03 - 00;19;04;09 Alex Where do you see the Navy's technology going in the next 10 to 20 years? 00;19;04;12 - 00;19;12;03 Senior Chief Mumford definitely. if you look at industry trends, it's going to be AI is going to play, heavily important role, for the Navy. 00;19;12;04 - 00;19;24;14 Chelsie That seems to be a very popular, trend. Like a we keep hearing that over and more. And that's why we here at NIWC Atlantic are really pushing our AI capabilities as well. So that that's fair to say. I agree. 00;19;24;14 - 00;19;27;25 Alex And how did you get interested in serving in the Navy? 00;19;27;27 - 00;19;47;12 Senior Chief Mumford Okay, so I originally joined the Navy, just because I, I joined after college. And so the Navy offered, will pay your college, your college debt, in three years if you, sign the contract for four years. And I was like, okay, awesome. But then I was enjoy this so much. And then I just I just stuck with it. 00;19;47;15 - 00;19;55;20 Chelsie Hey, not a bad reason to join. And the Navy retained you, and you've got great talent for it. So I think that was great. So thank you for talking with us today. 00;19;55;22 - 00;19;59;06 Senior Chief Mumford Thank you so much. 00;19;59;08 - 00;20;11;21 Chelsie Alex, senior chief mentioned that he joined, for college, which I thought was a great reason. That's a great reason to join the military, because you can take advantage of programs like tuition assistance and get your college paid for and, hey, he stayed in. So it was a win win. 00;20;11;21 - 00;20;18;03 Alex It is a win win. And I also liked that he had talked about installing equipment on Navy vessels, including submarines, which is really cool. 00;20;18;08 - 00;20;29;09 Chelsie Very cool job. He has, as always, to learn more about anything we've mentioned in the podcast, check out our social medias under NAVWAR or our NIWC Atlantic website. Links are in the description. 00;20;29;09 - 00;20;41;18 Alex That wraps up another episode, and thanks for listening. If you have a story that you think should be included in this podcast, please contact us at our Public Affairs email address, which is listed in the description. 00;20;41;20 - 00;20;58;23 Chelsie Naval Information Warfare Center Atlantic, also known as NIWC is the East Coast Branch of the Naval Information Warfare Systems Command within the Department of the Navy. We develop a range of technologies that provide state of the art capabilities to the United States military.